tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36422417.post1561164343353018785..comments2023-10-09T05:40:22.424-04:00Comments on Shpitzle Shtrimpkind: O' Babyshimon9testhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00968568074747616468noreply@blogger.comBlogger66125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36422417.post-39276268595547629612022-09-11T19:01:10.292-04:002022-09-11T19:01:10.292-04:00I don't get why someone isn't allowed to f...I don't get why someone isn't allowed to feel sorry for themselves.Memehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02478732420616799567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36422417.post-17171081090692145722007-07-22T10:12:00.000-04:002007-07-22T10:12:00.000-04:00another point to ponder. I've seen the ones who to...another point to ponder. I've seen the ones who took "breaks" have so much trouble when they decided they did want another baby. I've been through that myself and am feeling terribly guilty. I had my first three quickly. Didnt want the fourth that quickly. so many health problems came up after that "break" including one pregnancy loss at 34 weeks that almost cost my life. It seems like a plan from above. You don't get to choose. take what is given from above, but what we do need is SUPPORT! Support from husbands. Support as in PHYSICAL HELP! Take my baby for the night. I want an uninterrupted night of sleep. Cook dinner for me. Take my kids for a few hours so I can sit and read a book. I can go on and on. The thing I would have loved too, that first year after marriage, baby-free. Enjoying couplehood. Most young couples who have their first don't even know how to love them! I didn't. Too young.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36422417.post-64820244079890751122007-04-29T23:51:00.000-04:002007-04-29T23:51:00.000-04:00Hi Shpitz, it's been a while since I've written. I...Hi Shpitz, it's been a while since I've written. I have alot to write on this topic, but the time isn't right now. However on one thing I'll comment. Those who ssuffer because the husband didn't go to the dayan to ask for a heter? good for the suffering! Why can't you call the dayan yourself? ( I don't know in what community you live in, but by us in Brooklyn I speak to a Dayan all the time, I'm chasiddish and so is the dayan)Frumcouplehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12055061814430476180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36422417.post-77978744817256996732007-04-29T13:16:00.000-04:002007-04-29T13:16:00.000-04:00Great post! Please - as if going to a function fo...Great post! Please - as if going to a function for couples going through infertility is the "only thing" that would make Shpitzle grateful for her children! I think not.<BR/><BR/>As one who still suffers from physical/medical issues from her last pregnancy - I understand where you are coming from. I love my kids, but if Mr. Frumhouse even hints at another baby, I give him "the look." I know my limits.frumhousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02735783157413222489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36422417.post-35192875008625881222007-04-27T00:31:00.000-04:002007-04-27T00:31:00.000-04:00Despite your certainty about it, I stand by my pre...Despite your certainty about it, I stand by my previous comment: sirus by definition is permanent sterilization. When halacha is silent on something, the default p'sak is that it is permitted. I'm not particularly fond of Rabbis who, due to a surplus of time, invent sheilos and problems for us laymen.hasid_letzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03549826471480015817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36422417.post-68166279039110251622007-04-26T21:23:00.000-04:002007-04-26T21:23:00.000-04:00skeleton, i've never heard such a thing - and we g...skeleton, i've never heard such a thing - and we got a heter for iui/ ivf from a chasidishe willy dayan!Mindyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11270186136405883267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36422417.post-57249794799179430572007-04-26T19:56:00.000-04:002007-04-26T19:56:00.000-04:00anonymous - You're preaching to the choir.The Mech...anonymous - You're preaching to the choir.<BR/><BR/>The Mechaber may have been born in Spain, but hardly lived there, living mostly around Greece and EY.Skeletonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14620104359240294265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36422417.post-86687982447213526942007-04-26T06:06:00.000-04:002007-04-26T06:06:00.000-04:00Skelet 10:46pm: If so, could you please explain wh...Skelet 10:46pm: If so, could you please explain what Even HuEzer 5:12 is talking about, 'a woman may drink a rememdy to render herself infertile' - and the distinction the Bays Shmiel makes between a woman and and an animal in this respect?<BR/><BR/>Spitz: You said this was all Spanish (except for the Chasam Soifer bit). Well Rabbi Caro was Spanish, but what's the problem?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36422417.post-3262608491472474002007-04-26T00:33:00.000-04:002007-04-26T00:33:00.000-04:00http://www.jewishsexuality.com/http://www.jewishsexuality.com/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36422417.post-55782800331457232492007-04-25T22:46:00.000-04:002007-04-25T22:46:00.000-04:00Shpitz - "Saris" (or sirus, iirc) is sterilization...Shpitz - "Saris" (or sirus, iirc) is sterilization. Sterilization (surgical) is halachically forbidden, for males and females, humans and animals. In a nutshell.Skeletonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14620104359240294265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36422417.post-49644080042300620202007-04-25T22:43:00.000-04:002007-04-25T22:43:00.000-04:00Hasid_Letz - I'm pretty sure there is. When the p...Hasid_Letz - I'm pretty sure there is. When the pill for men will become medical reality, it will probably be assur on the grounds that it causes temporary sterility, even though it's non-surgical. See the document link I provided above for more information.<BR/><BR/>Mindy - From what I've read (you may be better informed, of course), there is an issue with the remaining sperm (when any remains). The way it's supposed to be dealt with is for the man to write a letter that if sperm is collected he will not pay/will no longer pay for its upkeep. It seems that this is an implicit way of telling the bank/hospital/clinic to dump it, but why not tell them this directly?<BR/><BR/>SS - I wasn't referring to the secular-world controversy surrounding Plan B. We all know that right-wing Christians are even 'frummer' than we are ;-) They do consider a zygote to be a "baby", whereas halachah doesn't, only from 40 days. So to them, even a morning-after pill which wouldn't allow a fertilized egg to embed is an "abortion". As for their general opposition to birth control - nobody ever said it was about health or medical science. They oppose it strictly on religious grounds. Try buying condoms in Vatican City. My question was rather why Plan B was forbidden across the board in Orthodox circles.<BR/><BR/>The Breslovers would gladly give you some literature on zera l'vatolo, but you'd be a fool to accept. Either you'll laugh yourself into oblivion, or it'll scare the living daylights out of you. Trust me, you want to steer clear of this subject.Skeletonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14620104359240294265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36422417.post-39292181590992615122007-04-25T19:59:00.000-04:002007-04-25T19:59:00.000-04:00JBF - I think there just aren't any babies up for ...<B>JBF</B> - I think there just aren't any babies up for grabs. Jewish couples would only adopt kosher children, and since there is a very low rate of giving-up for adoption in our society, infertile couples seemingly don't have any options.<BR/>It is heartbreaking because in the secular community there is always a second option for couples that can't have their own but want to raise a child from birth.<BR/><BR/><B>Mrs. Jude</B> - Ahhh – ditto. A fetus tends to feast on my body with such appetite, they leave no life for me. For the first few months I'm grey and bony and from there I get pink and ploppy.<BR/><BR/>But the first cry of a newborn child…<BR/><BR/>Nothing – nothing – not a thing can come close to that.<BR/><BR/><B>Skeleton</B> - Very informative.<BR/><BR/>As for Plan B – I see, you're right. Since Conservative Christian/Catholics are so stringent on abortion, and they're basically the ones behind the outcry, it would be assumed that the morning after is also an abortion. Although it does prevent 'already fertilized eggs' from settling – which I would guess defines into "stopping a pregnancy" (abortion?). <BR/><BR/>Aha. Now I understand why regular birth control too is considered to some extent abortion.<BR/><BR/>The controversy does not evolve around Plan A versus Plan B, rather about making plan B available over the counter, which a typical birth control is not. The right-wing argument is that if B/C is not safe to be used OTC, three times the dose sure isn't. It's politics, more so than actual medical science.<BR/><BR/>Where can I read up on the inyen of Zereh L'Vtala. It seems to affect such a great part of our lives, while it makes no sense.<BR/><BR/>Thirty pages is what you call an overview?? I was really not cut out to kvech a bank. Will still read it though.<BR/><BR/><B>S.A.M.</B> - Beeleeyoumee, I love bubbies like you! They promise not to do a thing, and then bend over double, pretending they did nothing…<BR/>Unlike JBF's assumption, there are Jewish adoptions. For instance you adopting me, hu?<BR/><BR/>So what exactly is the Zionism day? I remember something from school – vaguely. I'm a vepper, and that's causing trouble in observing my important holidays.<BR/><BR/><B>Anon 7:10</B> - <I>" I tried that one and the little sods don't want to know anything about hasidim. They say it's only for morons."</I> LMAO!!! I meant 'happier'. For me, the social pressure is the biggest problem I have with society. I'm happy with my life, so long as I don't have to abide to Groinim and Gretzel, Yenta and Devosha and the whole hook-nose society.<BR/><BR/><B>Anon 9:51</B> - You don't wear a nightgown? Why? Are you Jewish? How could a Jewish man past the bar mitzvah not sleep with a nightgown? Please don't tell me you're not wearing long gachas either. Gasp.<BR/><BR/><B>David</B> - Hearing it from you --- I am pretty sure that you're an exceptional father. We've become guilty of being failures as parents if we say we want small families. Thanks.<BR/><BR/><B>Anon 8:47</B> - Welcome to the club!<BR/><BR/><B>Velvele</B> - If there will be no running to rebbehs, there will be no rebbehs, and if there will be no rebbehs there will be no Chassidim, and if there will be no Chassidim, what's the world been created for, eh? <BR/>There's been a lot of discussion in the blogvelt about Rabbonim and Dayonim literally manipulating every aspect of our lives. If we want to shake from under their nails, we should start with abolishing the underwear shows.<BR/><BR/><B>Letz</B> - Let's start here. What's permanent saris?<BR/><BR/><B>Mindy</B> - It's interesting how much is allowed in the halachik aspect of infertility. People that hear about IVF are usually shocked that it's permissible.Shpitzle Shtrimpkindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10129526520146433087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36422417.post-68958766289213777022007-04-25T11:27:00.000-04:002007-04-25T11:27:00.000-04:00Just to clear up, skeleton:1. For IVF and IUI, the...Just to clear up, skeleton:<BR/><BR/>1. For IVF and IUI, the only way to collect sperm is via a special condom, and some rabbonim allow to use just th collection cup.<BR/><BR/>2. Hatzaas or hashchasas zera is not a problem with IVF or IUI, btw. You're misinformed. It's permissible to do IVF today.Mindyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11270186136405883267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36422417.post-50680013253294480172007-04-25T11:01:00.000-04:002007-04-25T11:01:00.000-04:00Skeleton, there's no halachik concept of 'temporar...Skeleton, there's no halachik concept of 'temporary saris.'hasid_letzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03549826471480015817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36422417.post-62085567529695780622007-04-25T10:37:00.000-04:002007-04-25T10:37:00.000-04:00The only way the rebelech will get the massege whe...The only way the rebelech will get the massege when enough people will stop runing after them for a hetter the husbands should learn and see what the hallacha really says.<BR/><BR/>the "Rebelech" should find another way to fill up their "paranches"Velvel Chusidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02147438850985053939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36422417.post-45118712626087255242007-04-25T08:47:00.000-04:002007-04-25T08:47:00.000-04:00wow i have said it so many times to friends and es...wow i have said it so many times to friends and especially one who is infertile - i always tell her I feel guilty moaning and she tells me I don't need to have kids on her behalf!!<BR/>I suffer for the first 3 months in preg and feel ill can't look after myself let alone my kids are the rabbonim going to come into my house to take charge until i feel better? i think not!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36422417.post-61290323287074902792007-04-24T23:01:00.000-04:002007-04-24T23:01:00.000-04:00You know..I have to agree with you here..I come fr...You know..I have to agree with you here..<BR/>I come from a small family and I've always wanted one myself. I dont think anyone should feel guilty if they want a small family. Every family dynamic is different and everyone has to know what theyre capable of.David_on_the_Lakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16755322374991538262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36422417.post-29498067700874442722007-04-24T21:51:00.000-04:002007-04-24T21:51:00.000-04:00>I love that bearded fella in the nightgown from t...>I love that bearded fella in the nightgown from the bed across the carpet...<BR/><BR/>You just proved that you're married to a real Yoelish. The first time in yeshiva I saw a chassidish bucher putting on his nightgown, I almost passed out.....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36422417.post-1173512832144070662007-04-24T20:09:00.000-04:002007-04-24T20:09:00.000-04:00HT - Hormonal birth control may fall under tempora...HT - Hormonal birth control may fall under temporary saris. Hormonal birth control also has the same problem I mentioned Plan B has - in addition to suppressing ovulation, it has 2 additional ways of preventing pregnancy in case ovulation does occur. One is by thickening the cervical mucus, making it harder for sperm to pass, and the other is creating a "hostile" non-receptive environment in the uterus for a fertilized egg so that it cannot attach/embed itself in the uterine wall, causing pregnancy. Hormonal methods do not have a 100% success rate even with perfect use, because <I>it is possible</I> to become pregnant while on it. My OB told me a patient of his became pregnant while on Depo-Provera; he'd given her the shot himself. In addition to the tiny percentage of people who will get pregnant while on hormonal contraceptives with perfect use, there is a much larger percentage (I've been informed it's somewhere between 4% and 15%) who will ovulate but not become pregnant. I.e. these people will have "real" periods, not "fake" periods, and if they happen to have sex when they are ovulating the reason it doesn't develop into a pregnancy will be either because the swimmers couldn't cross the finish line or the fertilized egg was aborted, so to speak.<BR/><BR/>Sam - AFAIK, many poskim are mattir using a condom (non-spermicidal) for sperm retrieval in the case of IVF to make it more comfortable for the couple concerned. Hashchasas zera becomes an issue with IVF because only several sperm cells are needed to fertilize several eggs and there might be millions left.Skeletonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14620104359240294265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36422417.post-40552675101766306172007-04-24T19:10:00.000-04:002007-04-24T19:10:00.000-04:00A parent that can teach the children a sense of in...A parent that can teach the children a sense of independence takes the first step to turning them into happy little hassidim.<BR/><BR/>Spitzle - I tried that one and the little sods don't want to know anything about hasidim. They say it's only for morons.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36422417.post-59520324357609982212007-04-24T18:22:00.000-04:002007-04-24T18:22:00.000-04:00"HT- you misread "hashchasas zera" (destruction of..."HT- you misread "hashchasas zera" (destruction of sperm) for "hotzaas zera levatola" (emitting seed in vain)". <BR/><BR/>Blushing.Bad.<BR/><BR/>So now were back to square one again.<BR/><BR/>"All forms of birth control touch upon some sort of halachic issue, be it hashchasas zera or abortion". <BR/><BR/>How does messing with a woman's hormones via the pill constitute HZ or abortion?Hoezentragerinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15294701910015782827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36422417.post-21978565481768036822007-04-24T18:13:00.000-04:002007-04-24T18:13:00.000-04:00Shpitzel, from the way you open your mouth on this...Shpitzel, from the way you open your mouth on this blog, it is difficult to believe you ‘fit in’ quietly in real life! <BR/>You are welcome to stay here at any time, just remember the house rules that apply to all, (you might change your mind)<BR/>1 Bubbe does not get up in the morning to feed and dress your children, she is the one that stays in bed, even if you are up all night with the baby, or sick in full view of the whole family.<BR/>2 You clear up your own mess.<BR/>3 If your children (some of which are probably older than my little darlings) ever fight with mine, know that mine are always right!<BR/> <BR/>CYL; You spoilt my theory: I told my husband, that if he wouldn’t have reminded me, I would be able to go through a year without knowing what day it was yesterday. I told him, that if not for him mentioning it, the whole Zionist cause it would sink into oblivion, because it is only celebrated now by a few old veppers and means little to any one else.<BR/><BR/>I have heard once from a couple undergoing fertility treatment that to avoid zera levatolo there are doctors that are prepared to remove the sperm from the woman on site.<BR/>Also I once asked a prominent Rov a shaila and began “I have 6 children”, and he gave me a hetter over the phone for a year on the spot without asking any details why and told me to ask again after a year if necessary.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36422417.post-56947877250636162382007-04-24T15:55:00.000-04:002007-04-24T15:55:00.000-04:00Shpitz - Hey, I said 50 bucks a pop! And that's w...Shpitz - Hey, I said 50 <B>bucks</B> a pop! And that's <I>wholesale</I>!<BR/><BR/>Re: using contraceptives post-nuptials for a while. This has already become standard practice in many MO circles and is encouraged or even required by their rabbonim.<BR/><BR/>About why we don't get six-year breaks with breastfeeding, or even six-month breaks sometimes. Because we do scheduled feeding instead of on-demand feeding. Those African women wear their babies on their bodies in slings and feed them while they work, in short spurts. I read that those babies feed on average every 17 minutes for several minutes. This keeps the woman's progestin high enough to suppress ovulation. Feeding a baby once every few hours usually cannot do this trick, and this is probably how it was done in the days of the gemara as well and is why the gemara mentions matter-of-factly that a lactating woman cannot get pregnant.<BR/><BR/>Plan B is actually merely a higher-dose (about triple the dosage) pill of regular combination pills. It will not induce abortion if a woman is already pregnant. It may prevent a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterine lining, but regular pills will do that too. Plan B is intended to stop or suppress ovulation fast, within 3 days, rather than the slower hormonal buildup of regular 21-day pills. Other than that they're pretty much the same.<BR/><BR/>No, most forms of birth control aren't just an issue of zera l'vatoloh. Some touch on saris, hashchasas zera, tashmish shelo k'derech in addition to pru urvu, sheves, etc.. See this for an overview:<BR/><BR/>http://www.jofa.org/pdf/Batch%201/0054.pdfSkeletonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14620104359240294265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36422417.post-43965715532712787472007-04-24T15:32:00.000-04:002007-04-24T15:32:00.000-04:00I should probably read all comments before I post ...I should probably read all comments before I post but my attention span is not that long at the moment.<BR/>"Let's get YOU very, very fat, make you sick, vomit daily, dangerously moody, sensitive to smell, unpredictably hungry, slow in motion, breathless, full of stretch marks and varicose veins, blown up, heartburn victimized, prodded by an OB, and then we'll get you to the hospital to be hooked up to monitors and huge needles, with deafening contractions and hell-splitting pushing."<BR/>I liked that quote as I have a hard time in pregnancy too, and for those who spend most of their time throwing up, passing out and in bed...it is very hard. Worth it, but hard. Some folks have an easy time of it... I can only envy them. lol<BR/>Yet, we turn around and say "baruch Hashem". Yes we do, because, lets face it, parenting is wonderful, in the most challanging and exhausting way possible.חנה מיכאלhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01762051022677840307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36422417.post-71409795700230338042007-04-24T15:13:00.000-04:002007-04-24T15:13:00.000-04:00I meant those who cannot conceive can adopt. Aren'...I meant those who cannot conceive can adopt. Aren't there any Jewish orphanage to adopt from? Pardon my ignorance I know nothing of this matter.<BR/><BR/>FYI: In the last year many teenage girls from Williamsburg have been thru secret abortions..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com