Saturday, December 09, 2006

Trilingual

You know these people that actually go through the hassle of writing a note to a manufacturer with product feedback?

My husband is one of them.

Lo and behold, he penned a letter to no other than Bill Gates. I held my sides, thinking it was ridiculous. For all you know we heard back!

I had to share this amazing correspondence:

(published with permission. please excuse the errors, I wanted to upload it as is.)



der mikrosuft word

i am ritink to yu tudai a jowish guy becos i whant to tank yu for all youre helps.. in my callage U.T.A, i only stude the torah so i don't know now aynglish, den one day my vife bore our first babi and i cant be in kollel because i got to go maik the monee because being a jow is vary ecpesif

i try to found a job wery long , bott its not asee for me , i don't speecking aynglish good or no compurers or no odder busnis tings, my vife tell dat i go to a gentyle skool but we dont haf teh resours,,,,

my swooger gives me a job but i have to learned to make the faxs and memos for the wendors , i 22 yar old end i only speeked jowdish and l.k. , in i was vary loost. i said for god to make me a nes.

won day i se a miraikl from god cald mikrosuf word, it fixes all errors, som'tims it gives mi a bettur wort and sometimes not, it is a large help

may god sand yu brachos and yeshuos and kul tuf uman

tanks
Joel strimpkond

n.b. pliz make the program mikrosof acsent becuz my acsent makes me tok slolech and sometime peoples dont understood.


And now for the reply:

February 12, 2003



Joel Strimpkond
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Brooklyn, NY 11211

Dear Joel,

I am rethinking to you toady Jewish guy bacons I want to tank you for all you’re helps... In my collage U.T.A, I only stud the torah so I don't know now anguish, den one day my vie bore our first babe and I can’t be in killer because I got to go maim the Monee because being a jowl is vary ecclesia .

I try to found a job wary long, butt its not apse for me, I don't specking English good or no comparers or no odder basins tings, my vie tell data I go to a gently spool but we don’t haft the recourse.

My swinger give me a job but I have to learned to make the facs and memos for the wanders, I, 22 yarn old end only sleeked jewish and o.k. , in I was vary loots. I said for god to make me a nest.

Won day I se a mariachi from god clad Microsoft word, it fixes all errors, sometimes it gives mi a bettor word and sometimes not, it is a large help .

May god sand you braches and yahoos and kill tuff unman?

Tanks,

Joel Strimpkond


PS I feel for you, man. -Bill

48 comments:

Yukel said...

What was the spell check for Mame Loshon? Trilingual?

Great post!

nuch a chosid said...

I am rolling in the floor laghing out loud, too loud, my wife will soon come running and sking WHAT'S SO FUNNY you woke me from my first sleep.

u know the saying
OY VOLT ICH GELACHT VEN DER NAAR VOLT NISHT GEVEN MEINER..... in this case its DAINER,,,,,

Shpitzle Shtrimpkind said...

Yukel - LOL!! I was having some trouble with a title...

Nuch - shush... shling eyn dee gelechter... m'vill nisht veken dee yidene..
I see dee naar is nisht deyner, and I hope you appreciate that. Most men I know really struggle with their English at first...

heimishinbrooklyn said...

Too too funny. I'm sure his english isn't as bad as that. Although it is pretty bad I'm sure. The sad part is that they are taught but are too busy having fun in school. Kinda like me now regretting having paid no attention to accounting class.
I am extremely curious though how some other bloggers like nuch, epes, and many others actually learned to write so well.

sheny said...

Heimishinbrooklyn Said "the sad thing is they are taught but are too busy having fun" we cant really blame children for letting out their steam after being closed up in chader for the whole day and then at about 5:00 given an hour or so of limiday chol. If the parents would be more motivated and they would demand more from the schools something could be done without undermining the limuday kodesh.
Were we live we have adult education class’s similar to those available in N.Y. that cater specially for Chassidish Yungerlait. The turn out is tremendous the enthusiasm is great. If only they could have taken these courses before they had to look for Parnose.

It's All Good Now said...

Very original. Well done.

Begreatfull said...

tis poost wos veeri fooneey I tall you mamish I laffet sooo mach my boych hort me

Shpitzle Shtrimpkind said...

Heimish - I begged my husband to write the letter for me, for purposes of authenticity, but he just looked at me and laughed. He says "it's your party, go nuts". So I went nuts, tickling myself silly with every spelling mistake I came up with...
But that doesn't make it untrue. I've interacted with men with no English writing abilities whatsoever.

They didn't teach much in school and neither in chedar. I think it's about time they prepare men a little for the al parnasa.

I personally picked up my english from 'entertainment'. If we women have a problem, I don't understand how the men manage.

Shendy My husband attended an English class. The guys sat around and cracked jokes. Not much he picked up there.

IA GN I was really trying to make a not-so-original point.

Shiksala nadder you deh tums!

Lakewood Venter said...

That was $@%^*& Hilarious!!! :-)

yingerman said...

Nebech
I feel for the guy.
When I was youthful I read oodles, so I had amassed an immense English vernacular.
Conversely I also took my limuday chol seriously not as a parnasa but just on the grounds that I was extremely inquisitive
(doncha love MS Word?)

It's All Good Now said...

Shpitzle, this post reminds me of all the ads I see in Yiddish language newspapers. More than the ads themselves, I enjoy the YINGLISH mistakes. (insert frown here)

cafe_28 said...

But after all this, you know what? The shvartze goyim out there who go to high school don't always know much better.
My husband goes to college , and he's in the top of his class in English. And he also used to throw oranges at his teacher in cheder. Sometimes, it's a thing that some people pick up more easily than others. This is true by girls who learn it in school too.

Shpitzle Shtrimpkind said...

LV – T@nk$!!

Yingerman – loll…! I do!
Well, I’m not sure where you come from but around here the ‘goishe shprach’ is forbidden by all means. Neither myself nor my husband were raised around literature in the English language. That’s really where the problem begins. My in-laws are the real kartafle, mantle etc people. My husband got married knowing nothing of the English language. He could hardly read the phone bill.

Café - College? Is that home school?
I’ve recently heard of a yingermanchikle or two that turned down the navy two-piece and its plumber’s salary to get some education. I assume there must be financial support somewhere because most newlyweds can’t afford tuition.
It’s ‘vee a man’. A friend of mine joins her husband for training in his biz because she has to translate for him. I’m sure your husband too struggled till he caught up.

shlomohamelech said...

Ich bin gegangen in Satmare cheider and now I am in college. I got one degree and studiying for another. English, I was in the top of my class. Literature, I was probabely one of the lowest. All the rest, always in the top.

Sheny, "we cant really blame children for letting out their steam after being closed up in chader for the whole day and then at about 5:00 given an hour or so of limiday chol" this is just BS. I was in cheider, but I happened to be interested so I learned. Others were not interested so they played and did their thing. Parents don't give a hoot about it, that's just a fact.

First, I did take an English class with all the yingeleit, but they are as interested as in cheider. They want it to be put in their head without working for it and that is not how you learn a language. You have to be very serious when you want to learn anything new. The same goes for college. When you go to college you learn that either you work hard and get good grades or you play around and fail.

However, let's not forget that college is not the answer. Not everyone that goes to college makes money and vice versa. And to be honest with you, except for a proffesions such as business, medicine, law and a few others, don't expect to become a millionare despite having a good education.

I know too many people without any education who make 150k+ a year. I know people with advanced degrees who wish that they would make 75k a year.

Chaya said...

Hilarious!! You have me laughing out loud! You're definitely the best out there.

Hasid_Letz said...

Shlomo,

"Let's not forget that college is not the answer."

The answer to what? To being able to compose a letter to a friend? To know how to gather and analyze information? To being rich?

"Not everyone that goes to college makes money and vice versa."

And if it isn't everyone, but rather a significantly larger percentage than those without a collage education, as a cursory review of census data reveals, is a collage education still worthless? In any case, how do you define "makes money," my collage educated friend? Which brings me to...


"And to be honest with you, except for a proffesions such as business, medicine, law and a few others, don't expect to become a millionare despite having a good education.

"I know too many people without any education who make 150k+ a year. I know people with advanced degrees who wish that they would make 75k a year."

Please bother to take a basic course in statistics, so you won't give us collage educated people a bad name.

Hoezentragerin said...

Amen, Letz, amen

Sara with NO H said...

HAHA!!!!!!!!

Y.Y. said...

college not coll age

Hasid_Letz said...

"English, I was in the top of my class...

"I did take an English class with all the yingeleit, but they are as interested as in cheider."


In a class like this, even a zombie would rank in the top ten percentile

rebeltosurvive said...

I bet if you tried running these 2 letters thru Microsoft spell check the program would have crashed. You would have recived a real letter from Bill.

cafe_28 said...

Shlomo is right; you can be in the top of the class in college even if you went to Satmar cheder.

Shpitzle, yes, there is some financial support. The government give financial aid to those who want to 'ditch the plumber's outfit and wage' and get some education. Not all of life is about sitting in Williamsburg in kolel, or working as a salesman. People who have the brains, the smarts and the ambition sometimes like to go to college. And they graduate in the top of their class.

ex-blogger said...

For Vy u maicking the phun from us?

BTW you gotto be a genius. ;)
I bet it was one of the modt difficult posts you have ever done.

Shpitzle Shtrimpkind said...

IA GN I’m trying to locate an old ad I saved. By a popular local company. Disaster in the talking. Voos ken men tun, the professional standards around here are lacking.
Not only in the ‘grammar’ but also in the quality.

Shlomo As serious as we all ‘female’ students were in school, with all the competition around, I didn’t pick up a useful THING. NOTHING. Alright, maybe I can do manual bookkeeping and perform the miracle of reciting SOME presidents, but nothing else. All the sweat I dedicated to spelling was replaced by the spellchecker, all the sweat I dedicated to math was replaced by the calculator and all the sweat that I dedicated to history was replaced by very zissa dagges.
I picked up some English by being ‘around’ it, AKA movies.
If the men would read a little ‘oisegehaltana’ English language books everything would be better.

Chaya thanks. again!!

Letz Frankly, I’m sick of hearing “voos is bashert is seyvee bashert”. Bring on the statistics to prove the myth wrong! Some go even further, “dee bashefer git far dee naar”.

This destructive way of thinking gives many the excuse to sit by and let life spin out of control. In my opinion what’s ‘bashert’ might already be there, as it was given to you in your brains, you just have to go through the college and career to extract it.

I just don’t understand when and how one can go through schooling. The average male I know is a father at the twenty, and is awarded the financial obligation about that time. That, without taking into consideration all the tuition expenses.

Hoezen Amen (let the women from the college veiber shul nod in agreement…)

YY You are now awarded your degree.

Saraha an h added!

Rebeltosurvive that’s exactly what happened! Lol!

Café I think there’s only funding for CPA. Not everyone is made of that mold. What about law or politics? Where are our Chassidic officials?

Ex-blogger oh, tsadikle, don’t take it to heart. You’re real good! (okay, I must be honest so I admit. You mispelled the word 'from'. It should be:For Vy u maicking the phun frum us? lol!

Hello! I figured out how to use the bold in comments and am lovin’ it!

Baal said...

How comes out the verd 'shpiztle" fun Mikrrosof verd?

Chaim Chusid said...

Madame Pointe,

A terrific piece as usual!

The education that our chinuch system offers is a disaster.

In today’s day and age it is ridicules to throw yingerlait out on the street with absolutely no secular knowledge and expect them to provide for a family, and of course to give nice checks to their children’s schools melave malkas.

There are those that really want to learn how to properly write a letter, or do an accounting table, but the opportunity doesn’t really exist.

The yeshivas are not offering it.

We are not even talking about the hardships that are involved if a yingerman wants to become a Doctor, Lawyer, or Architect.

I don’t understand why the Yeshivas are just ignoring this problem. Ask any baal michanich and he’ll tell you that not everybody is made for learning, ask him then what is being done for the ones that are not, and you’ll receive a blank look.


YES let bucherim that don’t want to learn have college classes instead of nacht saider, and not just that, but let them be encouraged to attend these classes, not scorned.

I really don’t understand why the great rosh yeshivas and mashgiychim just stand by and watch class after class leave the yeshiva to go into the work force, and not give them the tools they need.

I remain, slightly frustrated.
Chaim

shlomohamelech said...

Hey Letz,

I don't want to argue with you about statistics. If you didn't learn to read statistics, especially to understand what the statistics don't tell you, there is no point even to have an argument. The first thing my professor said about statistics was "I can make the statistics show whatever I want." This is why you have to really understand how to read the statistics and you have to read the source if you really want to know what the statistics show. So many times I read an article in the news about a certain study and when I read the actual study it literally contradicts what the news considers the outcome. In any research assignment if you will come to class with statistics and articles from the mainstream media and news, you will get a failing grade.

"so you won't give us collage educated people a bad name"

It seems that you have a mythical view of college grads. Get over it.

Letz, you show me a job offer for a college grad with a 4 yr. degree without any prior experience that offers more than $30-40k per year.

Shpitzle,

You got it right, I can tell you the same thing. What do I have from taking algebra and calculus classes? Within a year or two I probably won't remember how to solve those mathematical problems. The same goes for chemistry and biology. I don't work in those fields and I will soon forget all that I have studied.

You are constantly asking the same question, how do you get the money to go to college. The answer is simple, sacrifice. I did it and so are thousands of other people doing. I see people in my class sacrificing everything just so they can finish their studies in the hope for a better tomorrow. If you believe that if you husband will go to college he will have a better earning potential, you have to sacrifice. You won't be bale to go on vacation a few years. You won't be able to new suits and outfits; you will have to get from you family, friends and neighbors to dress your children. This is the way I did it. Now "Baruch Hashem" I am doing well despite going to college. I emphasize that it was pure luck-Bashert that I am doing well. I am glad that it involves the skills that I have studied for, but I still say it was Bashert. I don't want to go into the whole story of how I got to this but it was unbelievable.

shlomohamelech said...

You did not invent this argument yourself. I have read this in newspaper articles and books printed in the 19th and great part of the early 20th centuries. You are arguing a tried and, for the most part, failed solution. History has proven that it is not so easy to combine a "lasting" Jewish philosophy with secular studies, particularly for children and teenagers. It may work for one or two generations but it usually fails afterwards.

Chaim Chusid said...

King Sal,

Statistics show, that statistics are wrong.

I remain,
Chaim

shlomohamelech said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
hasid_letz said...

Shpitzle,

What we can show with statistics are the correlations associated with certain behaviors. We don't know that obtaining a college education is linked to higher income in a causal way, but we know that the two are highly correlated. We also know from studies in psychology (And others here can back this up. Speak up, you know who you are) that to a large extent humans have the ability to change their behavior. What we don't know is whether all of this is 'seivee bashert.' I'm not aware of a scientific study that has taken on to answer this question. Nor do I think science is capable of answering it.

But all of this is pointless, as it implies that the benefits of education are limited to higher income. Is this what we've come to? Are there no other valuable gains, tangible and intangible, to be had? Since when have we become so materialistic?


Shlomo,

I don't have a mythical view of college grads. I'm just speaking for those of us who internalized the knowledge we struggled so hard to learn in the first place, and still remember not only how to solve calculus problems, but also what the logic involved in doing so tells us about life on a daily basis. If you failed to take that one lesson out of your entire college career, I sympathize with you for time wasted.

Now back to reading statistics. The basic lesson of statistics you've failed to learn is that personal experience, however broad and extensive, is no substitute for random sampling. You continue to point to anecdotes (the many people you know without a college education that make 150K /year) and you ask me to use the same (to show you the job offer that pays more than 30-40K for an entry level position) in an effort to prove your point. I'm not falling for this.

If we want a reliable answer to the question, 'do college grads make more money than their non-grad counterparts?' we're forced to compare the figures for both groups and control for all other variables. I challenge you to obtain the average starting salary for both groups and we'll take it from there.

Cafe 28 said...

A college grad definitely has potential to make more money than someone who graduated from Satmar cheder. Of course, there are always those who get lucky. After all, G-d helps the stupid...
Shpitzle, if you decide to go toa regular goyishe college, the government gives aid no matter what type of degree you go for. Whereever did you get the idea of a CPA only getting???

Anonymous said...

GETTING A LITTLE SILLY THE PREVIOUS ONES WERE A LITTLE BETTER

Shpitzle Shtrimpkind said...

Baal I love this collection of yiddish-to-english translation…”how comes out…” lol!
My favorite translation is “what”. The person “what” I met...

Chaim You said it all, I have nothing to add. It’s just useless frustration because there’s nothing we can do about it.

Shlomo So how come you went to college?!?!

Letz Ahh, it seems you have it the other way around… You think college is important first to enhance a person’s abilities and second to aid financially… Accordingly, advanced education should be made available to women just as much as for men.
Well… that luxury I’m not even praying for, yet.

I know, there’s a lot of talent out there that’s collecting dust. But I wouldn’t worry about that when so many families live in semi-poverty, and men can hardly find jobs.

Café Aha! Real college! Well, from what I see most men attend the all-male Chassidic college. I just never heard of a single chassid with a degree in law. There are so many CPA oriented programs out there…

Anon Hey, what’s wrong with being a little silly?
Warrants a post in itself…

Shpitzle Shtrimpkind said...

Note - if you're having trouble with posting comments you are not alone... There's something wrong with it but I don't know what to do about it.

Hasid Letz said...

Shpitz,

I wasn't the one who assigned priority values vertically. I thought I made a horizontal argument. But if you choose to phrase it this way, here's my response: At the end of the day, what people get paid is inextricably tied to what and how much they produce. One's productive capacity, in turn, is a direct function of one's abilities. Note I said a function of abilities, not his diploma. Following this logic, it seems rather reasonable that enhancing the community talent pool and improving whatever human capital there exists will alleviate some parts of poverty problems. This isn't rocket science.

Shpitzle Shtrimpkind said...

Letz,

My question to you is hypothetically speaking, If Shlomo was right and there was no correlation whatsoever between one’s education and financial stability, would your argument fall away?

Meaning, is your prime motivation for a college education the ability to-do-what-you-love/love-what-you-do?

Yes, enhancing your abilities by advanced schooling probably gives you more odds to BOTH: finances and satisfaction. But for the sake of where we come from I would like to take them apart. While being well educated in secular studies is not really tolerated by chassidis, being financially stable is.


please email me at shpitzle@yahoo.com for assistance with comments :(...
wouldn't wanna miss hearing ya!

Cafe_28 said...

Shpitzle, that's because they don't go for law degrees. They go for other things, like building construction or architecture and the like. And very few go for medical degrees.

BTW, does the gov't give aid to those who want to take a class in CPA in all-male chassidish courses?? I wonder.

Jay Kay said...

Me too

I tried a few times to comment but the system rejected me. [rejected me or my comment? oi i need coach is there a [phyc]Dr. in the house?]

I am a product of just 4 years of chasidish secular elementary education. All I know about grammar, American life, history, politics, law is by self education driven by intense curiosity.

I sometimes shudder when I hear my family members speak. Even worse, is the cultural deafness one has when one is not educated in the history.

Let me point out just one little instance to make my point.

I once saw a chassidic man managing a group of black men in work crew. The Chasidic wanted to call over one of the men, so he called a guy "Hey 'boy' come here"

My jaw dropped; but how would this man know the meaning and the history of the word to a black man. I guess when the teacher was teaching history, he was throwing balloon water bombs in the corridor of the cheder. And when his 'mami' asked him why aren't you studying 'English'?

He answered: "fah'voos darf ich tzi visen vegen shartze in Alabama hindred yoor tzirik?"

You why, I would've answered, "the next time you call a man 'boy' you might get your face rearranged!"

On the other hand I can understand the point of view of those who reject all education on secular nature.

I am convinced, that this particular chasidic Yiddish culture and way of life would gradually disappear -as we know it- and I am not saying anything about being 'frum', we know that you can be big frummer brisker English speaking machmir in Lakewood hardly knowing any Yiddish.

I am sorry if this offends anybody but to a Chasidic person who was born deep in the bowls of chasidic culture and life. You all are nothing more than 'goyim' who practice the Jewish faith.

For me reading any work of Torah in artscoll is so alien and 'synthetic'. When a group of people decides to abandon a language so deeply rooted in the religion, more than just 'letter' and 'word' are lost.

It's an entire of way of thinking and feeling and relating.

Simply put, when you loose yiddish you are not eating, drinking, studying the same as your parents where. You might have longer tzitzis and wilder payes. But you are of a different culture, just I don't think in same way as a Yemenite Jew who might even be frummer then me.

This is the real struggle here. Those who resist secular education are simply placing a higher value on preservation of their heritage above the 'material' well being of their children's future.

Is it morally right? maybe not! But this is what motivates the dogged opposition to secular education in the chasidic world.

Just my little take on it.

Anonymous said...

test

Cafe_28 said...

JK, re: the second part of your post, I don't agree with you at all. What does speaking only Yiddish have to do with being a Yid? English-speaking yidden didn't 'abandon' their heritage; they were raised that way.

I wonder what makes you and people like you think that you are exactly the way G-d wants His people to be. If you ask me, Satmar Williamsburg and its mentality is the exact opposite of what a Yid should be.

I have no idea what language and the pursuit of an education has to do with Yiddishkeit, as long as you stick to Halacha, and don't do anything morally wrong either. Explain it to me.

a said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
c said...

Since many seem to want to know about financial aid, I will tell you what little I know. If you apply to an accredited college, you can get onto two government programs, one is call PELL and one is called TAP. These programs are only for people going to college for the Bachelors degree. The basic degree, not Graduate school. If your yeshiva already made you sign up for these programs so that you did not have to pay tuition, it probably ate up part of what you might have been able to use for college.

The maximum you can get from Pell is $2025 per semester. Usually it's two semesters a year. In certain cases you can also get money for the summer semester. I belive that TAP is almost $2500 per semester. So that comes to about $9000 per year. This only applies is you go to school full time and take minimum 12 credits per semester. Usually 4 courses.

Now depending on what kind of school you choose to go to you will see how far that money goes. If you go to a state or city college, SUNY or CUNY, and are a NY resident, then it only costs about $2000-4000 per semester. A community college like Kingsborough will be cheaper than a four year college such as Brooklyn College. If you choose to go to a private school such as Touro or Long Island University, etc, you usually pay per credit, anywhere between $250-800 per credit.

If the finacial aid does not cover, you can apply for low interest loans that you do not have to start paying back until after you graduate.

If someone really is motivated to go to school, the resourses can be found. The US government really wants it's citizens to educate themselves. It's not a big deal to apply. The money is waiting for you on a silver platter.

Shpitzle Shtrimpkind said...

C - Thank you very much for most helpful information! Thank you, really.

ch chick said...

Shpitzle - I had been trying to post that comment for days. I couldn't log in or post for some reason. When it finally got posted my name went in as "C". Not sure whats wrong with my blogger ID. I hope someone finds the info useful!

CHCHICK

Shpitzle Shtrimpkind said...

C Chick - If it helps, it really helps me.

Something is wrong with the comments, but thanks for sticking around!

Jewish Student said...

my english is not best either, but i can spell better then that.

i do see by mistake he spelled a few words right.

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