Tuesday, November 14, 2006

Shalom Bais

I’m eagerly awaiting the release of the book "Women are from Venus, Yungeliet are from Yeshiva". Until they publish this self help manual, I’m grappling in the relationship on my own.

Yeshiva is an odd planet. It’s a place buzzing with species dressed in loose, big black chalatlech gowns; Its living beings consumed with worries and debates about Rebbes day and night. The Yeshiva definition of fun usually incorproates flamables or similar destructive material. The Yeshiva definition of hygiene involves nothing at all. The Yeshiva definition of women involves sisters, period.

My parents drove down to that very planet, and brought me home one of them people. He was a good boy, they said, and we were to spend the rest of our lives together.

A couple of days before we wed, my Yeshivinite was briefed on the nature of the institution called ‘marriage’. He was introduced to the unpredictable female specie, with all her interesting ways, and given some important pointers as to how to survive life with her. His handbook mentioned nothing about seeking love. It was about nidda, about faking basic cleanliness, and the infamous moods of the wife. By the time I started to scramble eggs for him, he considered himself blissfully and eternally married.

Why shouldn’t he be happily married? He figured he’d executed all instructions in excellence. He proudly took his socks out of the bedroom every day and threw them next to the hamper. He volunteered to skip the disposables and use the corell dishes, and washed them afterwards. He thanked me a million times for every bite of my lavish breakfasts, and he issued a replica of the exact same compliment every time I got dressed. If you throw in a home he has to himself, and a few new men-gadgets on his belt, walla, he’s absolutely in love!

Well, this here Venus wasn’t all that delighted. At first, I was occupied with convincing my friends that I’m ‘In himle’, in heavans. Trouble began a few weeks post nuptials.

I remember one particularly dark evening. I was standing at the mirror, trying to make a headgear out of the scarf and all the pins, with hands numb and impatient. I overheard my husband beam his newlywed happiness via cordless waves to his parents, as he was gushing into the phone.

Then heard him casually disclose a most private secret. He said “oh, my wife doesn't wash my tsitses at all! She just says we can send it to the cleaners.”

My hands limped to my sides. I could not believe what I just heard. The secret was out, this baal habusta has a pact with the dry cleaner. My in-laws will now know that they’ve been really been had. The housewife they were promised is a fraud. The Shout technique they taught me really isn't what makes his tsitsis so beautiful.


I rushed into the kitchen and silently, with a face bright purple, motioned for him to stop saying so much. Later that night I explained to him that I do not appreciate the sharing of personal information with the in laws.

“Why not?!" he protested.  "They always ask me about you!”

“Because! They don’t tell you this, but when they hang up they ask themselves what sort of wife they got you.”

“What makes you think that?” My Yeshivanite didn't get it.

“I know that! Nobody sends the tsitsis to the cleaners. Everyone washes it by hand. It's just... I don't do well with the scrubbing.”

“Nah. They love you.” He returned to his beeper.

“HUH!?” I croaked, tears were swelling in my eyes.

“Okay. Then I won’t say it again. ”

There. Problem solved. We were blissfully married again. After these discussions, he considered the subject resolved and shelved. He could put his keyrings on the nightchest, turn out the light, roll to his side, and begin with the deep, long, snores.

Just a couple of days later I, woman and moodiness, created another one of these fusses. Again, the blissful newlywed life Yoelish was enjoying was interrupted by my emotional big-deals. It was after he asked the in-laws not to make the goulash supper anymore. “She doesn’t like it. Not the potatoes, not the chicken”.

I exploded in my contained way. “I told them a half hour ago that I loved the supper they sent! Why do you tell them everything?”

“Oh. I’m sorry. I won’t tell them anymore.”

Simple. Another little bump in married life was resolved. Did he learn anything? Oh, no need to. He just needed to avoid conflict. It wasn't about if I was right or not, if I was hurt or not, it was about not having any disagreements at all. I couldn't get Yoelish to agree to hash out my complaint. I hardly began crying and he soon had a solution and closed the discussion
. Thus, I began with the infamous, ultra-wifey "blowing", the silent treatment. The next time I had the urge to argue, but couldn’t summon his cooperation, I simply stormed away. How helpful! When he tried to go on with life in total oblivion of my earnest blowing situation, I’d answer in short monosyllables through tight lips. I participated in conversations with a lot of ‘adonoknows’. I ate my food with loud, angry crunches.

It took a lot of time for him to grasp the concept of a fight. To understand that it’s a cleansing ritual. It took a lot of time for him to understand that a marriage involves a relationship, and a relationship involves some good arguments. It was my Yeshivinite’s most important lesson and he wasn't taught any of this in all of his introductory courses. 

68 comments:

Semgirl said...

Shpitzel.. for puppies there is obedience school. Unfortunate that doesnt exist for bochurim from the dorm, you need to housebreak them yourself..

I have found that rolled up Yateds are excellent when you find a trail of vesh going from the bedroom to the living room. The first year or two is a good time to instill in him what you will or wont tolerate. Because, then everything else is a breeze afterwards. I would venture to guess that training one husb is infinitely more difficult then ten wild little yingerlach..

Y.Y. said...

nebech i pitty you
it seems you dont know the definition of a relationship either

Anonymous said...

hi shpitzel its shiegetzaross (yoely n) again.it simply put.stranger grew up between buchrem 1)if you try to be nice and understanding you'r not going to be looked at in yeshive 2)there comes beeing cool with moust guy's it's staping on other poeples feelings.3)the 1 who is more open minedet about things usally never expirenced a real relationship therefore whan thay try thay don't realy know if thay do anything bad or good.so is a girl to a scirten degree. so it all come's down to the persons natoure if he is someone giving and careing allways trying to help others than he will ajust to life in marrige.if he is selfeish than there is alot of that in the relationship. gtg have a grate life.

JewishBiFemme said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
JewishBiFemme said...

Hi Yoily N. ::))

Y,

Are you kidding me? We all go thru exactly what she wrote.. (unless you are not from chasidish backgrounds like us) Though I don't think all men from yeshiva leave laundry or do the typical things has nothing to do..My husband (yeshivah boy)is super clean I never had to teach him in that aspect..

Shpitz, Sweet dreams waiting for that book.....I don't see a book titled like that would change anything! Since we are not allowed to date...Fall in love....chemistry..attraction..
Get to know each other etc..

You wrote: I participated in conversations with a lot of ‘adonoknows’. I ate my food with loud, angry crunches.

LOL!!! Like that would do any good!
NO matter how much I try to "blow" or act mad it doesn't work for me! He wont give up he will go on and on and even say sorry for nothing.. I can imagine a million things going thru your head when "blowing" a horn...Nebach you really wish for him to know EVERYTHING that bothers but you are to busy "blowing". I say the best is to let it all out!! I always tell him (cant remember last time we had a fight) you just look at me and listen ill just bitch away no need to even answer at the moment..

WE are told as complete strangers to love each other, live together etc.. Despite the fact both of them had a different upbringing..That creates egos,rifts,resentment..
Its not about not fighting there is more to a marriage then that.

Love grows it is amazing how two strangers can change each other for the better without egos as time goes by we don't even give a darn what anyone says but enjoy and live to please each other..

I am not m'kana those newly married people who lie to your face oh im in himel.."we are so in love" Yeah right! Newly weds are to busy pleasing the new family or people around them more then each other...

Shpitz, its not all about men! Im sure you know what yeshiva bucherim have to go thru when marrying a frum woman from venus..I didn't even know the meaning of marriage even though women are more mature we have no clue what awaits us..All we know is that we look shien in the kallah klied and thats all we care about oh and the shietal..

We aint perfect girl!!!!!!!

p.s. Im staring at this woman with a shpitzel trying to imagine her as open minded and intelligent as you lol..Your writing is amazing....

I could go on and on regarding this topic but we dont want to piss off the moody anons do we?

JewishBiFemme said...

Y, I meant yy

Why dont you teach us then the true meaning of a relationship? Is it hiding a blog from a frum wife?? You are freakin mean Y>Y

heimishinbrooklyn said...

Most men aren't very thoughtful. They need to be told everything. They grew up in yeshiva and we can't expect much more from them. But once they're told they are expected to remember....
Blowing never helps. When they ask us 'what's wrong' and we say 'nothing' what we really mean is 'something's going on, you have to squeeze it outta me'. They hear nothing and that's where it will stay! They won't push the matter. And two weeks later when you'll bring it up and he said 'but I asked you and you said nothing" go explain to them that you meant 'something'.... I'm getting confused myself. We are complicated but not as much naive as they are.


Anyway, JBF great to see you back. What do you say to Michelle Rodriguez? The latest one to 'come out'.

Itching For ... said...

Shpitzle,
do You Or Anybody else here know of a heimishe sex blog?

shiegetz aross said...

HI JEWISHBIFEMME!

I like you'r piont of view but all i say is that its no diffrance where you grow up it's just up to the person if he is more careing and helping others type like you'r housbant(wich went to yishivah and stad in a durm but hade his friends threw helping others and didn't need to do all this things of not lisinig to others problems and stape on ther feelings)but there are those who are trully good poeple but since thay are lass invalved with ganerasty(how ever you spell that ward)the are not inclined to put tham self in to ther wifes shows(EVEN IF HIGH HHEELS).

Also A Chussid said...

Shpitz,

Picture perfect portrayal as it is without the slightest bit of exaggeration. In my personal experience this innocence only strengthened our marriage…

Ex-Blogger said...

True or not, You sure have a Shpitz.

I love your writing style.

Yoel N.
I am not sure who you are or which yeshivah or gas station you are from, but whatever you write could be you, your freinds and you kool circles, from what I know, an understanding boy or a git hartz was always loved and appreciated in Yeshivah.
Share your thoughts on yourself dont generelize others based on particulars.

Chaya said...

Shpitzel,
I've been following your blog for a while, and I think it's one of the few that are worth reading. I am not living in exactly your world, but am very familiar with it. You seem to be extremely intelligent and open-minded, and able to express your feelings so well that I can actually feel it with you. And with all the flaws you see in your lifestyle, you are still living it - and from what I can tell - doing a wonderful job at it.
You amaze me!

your ok im ok said...

Well i was thinking.
does dating falling in love couples have a greater chance of marraige bliss. dunno. all i see is that the dicorce rate is out there is alot more than in here. why? maybe cuz chasidishe girls dont know what they are entitled to?

i was very angry when i came to my senses bout being set up, my wacky, dumbass, shitty, stupid, disgusting, shameful....... wedding night. Its just plain crazy to me. i feel now its like two ten year old having sex. it was sooo confusing. didnt understand what i was feeling, the pain, not being turned on at all, man sounds like gentle rape. see i didnt know much bout sex, attraction, arousal. oh god, i hate thinkin bout it.

on the other hand, its great that my parents choose randomly a guy who happens to be the complete opposite of my dad, very soft and gentle, which created a problem at first. i wasnt used to soft, quiet. normal life for me was, screaming, blaming, belittling.

another point, if i woulda taken time to get my act together, marry in my late twenties, get out of a brainwashed community, seek a guy who shares at least some of my life views and beliefs, i think it coulda prevented alot of strife.

yes marraige is a give and take but i live a double life due to my circumstances which ive come to terms with.

Anonymous said...

And I was lead to believe that marriage counseling was invented by a Chasidic Jew.

Seriously, do you think that what you have described is exclusive to boys from Yeshiva?

Apparently you are still very closed minded.

Read the following links, which were not written by a Kollel yingerman. You can find tons of other links with the opposite inference, as well. The point I want to make with these links is that your post is a typical women's post for the first 3-5 years of marriage and those links are what guys would write for the first 3-5 years. Afterwards, if they are lucky enough to learn about each other, the weaknesses and strengths, positive and negative, and they make it their goal to love each other and care for each other, they will live happily ever after. Otherwise they will write such posts every month. Don’t forget to include age as “a” factor.

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/2-24-2002-12089.asp

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/2-24-2002-12089.asp

http://funny2.com/mensrules.htm

Anonymous said...

And I was lead to believe that marriage counseling was invented by a Chasidic Jew.

Seriously, do you think that what you have described is exclusive to boys from Yeshiva?

Apparently you are still very closed minded.

Read the following links, which were not written by a Kollel yingerman. You can find tons of other links with the opposite inference, as well. The point I want to make with these links is that your post is a typical women's post for the first 3-5 years of marriage and those links are what guys would write for the first 3-5 years. Afterwards, if they are lucky enough to learn about each other, the weaknesses and strengths, positive and negative, and they make it their goal to love each other and care for each other, they will live happily ever after. Otherwise they will write such posts every month. Don’t forget to include age as “a” factor.

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/2-24-2002-12089.asp

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/2-24-2002-12093.asp

http://funny2.com/mensrules.htm

Anonymous said...

I've been following your blog for a while and i gotta tell you--I love each and every post. Keep updating and keep us all entertained. :)

your ok im ok said...

has anyone heard of the herzog middleage guy who gave lessons a while ago for buchurim. he said sex anly like tues, shabbos.
dont kiss her unless u plan on having sex, dont lay with her unless u plan on having sex. f*ckin ass.

he made me feel like im a blow up doll, a garbage didposal.

my mom also told me one of the crazy stuff she heard and believs, put a knife on the mans pillow to indicate u want sex. a woman sholud not ask for sex but gently indicate.
dont get me started, im bout to hit a wall reminding myself of the brainwashing. Well i got myself started here, lol. maybe i should quit reading stuff that enrages me.

Y.Y. said...

all you girls need to chill out and start living normal lives instead of bitching here on this blog
tonight when your husband comes him meet him at the door with nothing on and seduce him into sex

your ok im ok said...

hey y.y. u know i dont really appriciate your degrading comments.
1. ur a man, dont petend u understand us.
2. bitching helps. its not like were bitter all the time, we just venting, its very healthy, free therapy.

heimishinbrooklyn said...

girl, if it enrages you then dont think back to those times. Many girls are naive so they have to be told rules and exactly what to do. They dont have a clue. You seem smart, you didn't need it, but it is all just standard procedure. I went through it too but it definately doesn't enrage me. Once you're married, just go with the flow, whatever you wanna do. When you're clean there are no rules!

Y.Y. said...

im giving you free advice
i dont see how my comment is degrading you

Y.Y. said...

besides this is not your blog even if it was i can write whatever i want the author of this blog has the right to delete my comments too

Shpitzle Shtrimpkind said...

Jewishbifemme – Well, the level of blowing you are talking about is already later into the marriage. When the husband starts to figure out that blowing is actually a means of complaining, he starts to prompt us to give away what’s bothering. However, most men don’t realize at first that something is wrong if the wife is mum. They assume she’s just, y’know, like they said – moody…


Yoely N. – Very nice men with very good intentions also need to know how to execute the nicesness. Okay, some slobs are not so nice, but some nice men really try hard to be good husbands but simply don’t know how.


Heimish – Well, I think blowing helps in the beginning. I heard a famous lecturer say “blowing should be reserved as a last resort. Otherwise you’ll make it cheap.”


Klueless – That’s probably why half mothers keep their noses in the marriages.

Also – What prompted me to write this post was a little conversation I overheard by a woman married about a half year. She boasted that she has never had a fight yet. “my husband is just such a gitskeyt”. I was surprised when nobody told her that her sentence is not a point of pride.

I’m saying that some of us don’t figure it out themselves.


Chaya – Thank you so much.



Shlomo - Where exactly did I suggest that these things ONLY happen here?

You broached a very frustrating topic but I'll try to maintain my calm.

Here's what you would've said if YOU were open minded "Ah... I knew it's the same everywhere. I knew these people are humans too. It's interesting how much the same we all are after all."

For some reason outsiders think they have the copyright on daily issues, while they reserve only two subjects for the Satmar: Rebelism and Fanaticism (oh, and also rabbinical fights). Anything else we'll talk about and you'll come running to prove that it happens everywhere.

Exactly. It does. We're all human and although our lives differ because of the twist in culture, we all still strip down to the same issues – relationships, parenting, aging, etc… You’ll be surprised how normal we are.

I dedicated this blog to write about issues I run into as a chassidic wife and mother. That's all. I decided to write about Shana Rishona couples on this post. What's your problem?



Anon – Sure… J


You’re Okay, I’m Okay – I still hope to dedicate a post one day to that topic. Or should I not? It seems to really upset you.

YY - Sorry, placing orders on my blog isn’t any way to make your wife deliver…

leible said...

shpitel

when you start your post from the get-go that men are from mars and girls are from...( beis ruchal?) it really says to the men reading bud out dude, get it! you do not understand ok!!!
but if you read the comments its full of yoily's and getzels and that made me think Y?

Crossdresser

I think that explains it, crossdressing is on the rise in america more and more people are reversing the roles in dress and act. now is it a fetish or mental i do not know but it explains a little why men mingle in women's issues and woman love to shtip there two cents in what goes on between the men

i guess i did find something to add in this anti- man ( for yidene yente spitzel and shprintze in the viiber-sheel only)topic

did i just crossdress????

Leible said...

how long it takes from position one( what your taught in chusen-kallah classes) is a great indicator in a relationship the problom is it takes longer for the freeme shpitzel to move then it does for the shvartze glezer/zuken buchir

normaly by the end of the second round (assuming no frustrating mishaps) the normal couple has moved a drop that is were they start binding and sharing something that is special to only they themselves its there were it either becomes blissful or one of them freaks out or gossips out to others that kills that forming bond. if the bedroom is not sacered the marraige is bonkers regardless if he puts his shtrimp in the hamper or not

shaitel said...

okay shpitzel, i always wondered about this topic, chasidish men who go out of their way not to look at girls all their life are suddenly married , stuffed into a room with a strange girl and told "go for it" and expected to go all the way. there is no middle ground, get to know each other, hang out, etc. it goes from 0 to 60 in one session. I always wondered how that worked! and dont the girls freak out when they find out what is expected? I mean you have to take off your seamed stockings in front of a guy? wow!it is too drastic a change. please elaborate!

your ok im ok said...

hey shpizel. i like u. btw i hope we can meetup one day in person. im in willy every now on then.
u post whatever u desire. my rantings are thereputic. hope u dont mind

JayKay said...

Your ok..

I still think you are plastering this blog

But I also see (at least as much as man can) your deep pain and suffering which should not be minimized.

I will address the 'instructions' your chasan got a bit. All he got was basic halacha (I strongly feel that if you reject halacha totally, then this is the wrong blog for you)
and he maybe he didnt convey it rightly to you.

First I will say that this goes to very issue shpitzel is posting about the differences between chasidic men and women.

We as men are trained from cheder on, to think about 'words' in an exact[ing] way. Yes cassical judaism is about 'splitting hairs' on the meaning of a particular halacha. after all there must be a reason why the talmud has over 2500 folio pages [of which I am presently on a seven year journey to complete].

So this bocher from Yeshiva; in whom it is drilled day in and day out that 'words' actually have 'exact' meanings,gets married and is told that the words of his [future] dear one arn't really what is being said. You have to be s-e-n-s-i-t-i-v-e. to her 'feelings' that are 'implied' or somehow conveyed thru the medium of 'blowing'.

A tall order indeed!

Which brings me back to the issue 'im ok...' raised. The talmud considers the 'wasting' of semen as serious sin. This halacha has vast implications on the religious life of orthodox jews; i.e reproductive sulutions for the childless, the behaviour of men toward the opposite gender, even behavior in the privacy of our bedrooms.

Therefore, if a certain act can lead to the emision of semen not during sex it should be avoided. So the Rabbi advised the 'man' to avoid intimacy if it will turn him on so far...

The recomendation of Friday and Tuesday is just that, a halachic recomondation! Halacha instructs at least two reasons not to follow this recemondation. (1) If one feels the urge and in order not to commit this sin.. one should rather try to entice the spouse. (2) If the husband detects the slightest desire (yes it is his obligation to detect this) in his wife for sexual relations, then it is his abselute 'biblical' obligation to please her in every way, and it is an obligation implied in the ketuba every jewish woman got under the chupah!

So I think 'Im OK...' got this from her husband in a completly 'technical' way devoid of any feeling and 'respect', just the typical 'words' as conveyed in halacha I can understand how this lands on a fems head.

I hope I shed some light on this.

I don't have time for more but again 'Shpitzel' what a delicous post!!

Ex-blogger said...

NO ONE SHOULD ARGUE THIS!!!!!

A woman can turn a guy counter clockwise in bed in a jiffy, men are the ones who would have to dedicate years (yes, jiffy vs. years) To get their wife more open minded.

wow said...

Shaitel, are you married? I'm guessing you're not. Why don't you just wait till your 'teacher' lets u know everything?

cafe_28 said...

Ex-blogger,

Yes, an average couple. The problem is when you got a extra-frum man and a more open-minded woman. Then it's the opposite

Anonymous said...

Shpitz,

You start out with "Women are from Venus, Yungeliet are from Yeshiva" which implies that you are going to write about issues that are exclusive to that title and you ene up writing a classical "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" post. I simply pointed that out in my comment.

Jaykay, ich bin oich gegangen in satmere cheider and don't come here to defend the way the stamare choosen teachers are taching the chassanim. Although, OK is zeier a farbiterte neshumeh and that's why all her comments have this sour taste and does not acurately convey how the shassaning are taught, still I say that they are not teaching the chassanim right. So headaches and heartaches could have been prevented for most yingeleit if they had a better choosen education. I went through all of this and I writing from first hand experience. I can take you on on each of the subjects that you wrote and show you that you are not correct but this is not the place or time for this.

cafe_28 said...

Jaykay, come on.

The men who are taught this 'halachic recommendation'of Tuesday and Friday are not told those 2 reasons you listed that will override this recommendation. They are just taught the first part. And those who only listen to the words of halacha, end up not pleasing their wives, and not pleasing themselves either. They just become crazier and frummer.

I'm speaking from first-hand observations.

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JewishBiFemme said...

Therefore, if a certain act can lead to the emision of semen not during sex it should be avoided. So the Rabbi advised the 'man' to avoid intimacy if it will turn him on so far...

How farikt is that? A man should avoid intimacy with wife? Only Tues. & Fri? How about all frum (supposedly) who come up with such halachic excuses pleasure themselves (by hand) when googling every perverted word possible on a computer or blog or while taking a shower? Do you really believe that is more OK then actually making love to your wife more then Tues. or Friday night?

I thought rules change as the years go by..The world gets sicker & sicker or shall I say hornier. Yet its a sin if we do the deed on Sun. Mon.Wed.Thur. or Sat. (even during daylight)..

Cafe, Exactly


Only Tues. & Fri?

JewishBiFemme said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
JewishBiFemme said...

Leible, Sorry but all your comments come across as VERY GAY>>

What has crossdressing to do with men understanding women in general?

It's ok! We all know men & women come from different planets, no need to become one to understand us....

Im sorry but this shpitzel does not come across as a yenta...

your ok im ok said...

hmmm my comments have a sour farbiterte taste, my lord, ill make sure to spice it up a bit. or maybe take classes on how not to be farbitert.
i dont wanna turn out like my mom. shes not very likable

nuch a chosid said...

I have so much to say, that I don't know where to start.

firsts first, another great post by Shpitzel, portraying accurately but in a hilarious way day to day happenings among us.

I agree that a fight is necessary to clear things up and get closer, with out that its artificial, and yeah was there done that, we also thought that we're the couple match made in heaven for the first few days after the chasuna, then we realized that we may be that, but we need to work hard on it, to get there.

Blowing !@#$%%^&^&%(*(&)*(
I HATE IT. do not blow!! TALK!! CRY!! but for g-d's sake do not blow, it's the worst!!

Shpitzel, u gave us the wife's version, I still think that the men's version deserves a post for itself, and it may be worse, like many pointed out in the comments, (I think the first was JBF)

I agree with those who wrote that A farfrumte wife with a open husband have a much tougher time then the other way around.

I have lots more to say, but I gtg. maybe I'll be back again

p.s. I've posted more positive uplifting stuff on my blog, check it out when u got a chance. and tell me what u think

shiegetz aross said...

Hi ex blogger 1rst you didn't understant me.nice poeple who knolw how to care about oyher feelings don't try to be cool cuz they don't considere (how ever its speeled)themself any higher lavel than another so therefore thay'r good housbands and ussally nice in yeshivah but the so called cool poeple who are not that giving in his mind he is higher above others in therefore he isant that good with other poeple.but of curse there are nice careing poeple.

Y.Y. said...

ex blogger right on!

Y.Y. said...

these women are lazy and just want the world handed to them work for it a little when was the last time you made romantic comments to your husband on how sweet he looks and how much he turns you on?
yes i know
NEVER

Shpitzle Shtrimpkind said...

Leibel,
I wouldn’t compare cross-dressing with trespassing, but it seems you ended up finding a point to make… That’s the beauty of blogworld: while the yentas chirp the yingelech can chime in…

Shlomo – The term ‘yingeliet are from yeshiva’ refers to men that are first timers in the world of venus, versus the Men from Mars who have dated, slept with others or even had a few years of living-together with the new spouse. That’s all. Kupcho?

You’re OK – Well, wanna meet me? Next time you meet Shpitzle woman smile to her. See if she smiles back. It might be me…

Nuch a Choosid – As always, great on-topic comment. Whatchamado? Blowing is a last resort… I know, my husband has the same attitude towards it. By now. He calls it the silent monster…

YY – You’re starting to trespass again. If you’re not interested in the topic you don’t have to comment. That’s all.

Shpitzle Shtrimpkind said...

JayKay and others brought up the topic of sex between a young couple. I’d like to add my personal opinion as I strongly agree with those that feel the system needs a fix.
How many of us have horror stories to tell? How many of us struggled for months till we figured out what point all of this made? Why is there always a frum attitude farmished in the shisle? Why can’t they give it to the men with all the gusto? “Here bucher’l, you’ve lived your sheltered life, now go on and enjoy that bride of yours.”
But no. It’s all about what not to do. Many Chassidic yungeleit get married with the impression that there is one mitzvah, with an exact how-to, period – end of headache. It occurs to nobody to add to all the do-nots a note that what’s not on the do-not list might be allowed, and experimented. Each and every friend of mine has an awful story of a misunderstood rule they practiced. One put garbage bags on the window and the next never had sex before twelve.
JayKay, it’s the obligation of the mechanich that learns with the chasson to give him the tips. He’s been kept away from mainstream knowledge, who should tell it to him now? His confused, nervous, desperate mind four days before the act?
Too many couples struggle.

your ok im ok said...

Shpitz, when i greet women in willy the give me an odd suprised look, lol.
theres lots to learn bout how men and women are different. not only in the chasidic world.
reading mars and venus in the bedroom my whole attitude regarding men changed. i thought we gotta give it to them or else the thought of another woman who might satisfy him more would arise, or that men are dogs, pants down, in u go, 123 ok im done. i realized no. a man needs sex to get access to his deep loving feelings towards his wife, a wife needs love, tenderness, compliments to want sex. thats what he wrote and it cleared up few things.
btw its a lil complicated cuz a man can get aroused and ready to go within seconds, a woman needs alot of prepping, all the right buttons pushed, its a job for men i think, holding it back so long.
i hate when i havto point things out during the act. it ruins the mood, so i just let it be the way it is. ill deal with it when... im in the mood.

shaitel said...

of course i am married, why else would i be wearing a shaitel?
where i come from its a lot different, so i wonder how the chasidim manage with this issue. but they seem to do okay. my very chassidish nephew, who doesnt even look at his wife in public, never mind talk to her chas veshalom, managed to get her pregnant in record time.

Y.Y. said...

before you critisize me about not sticking to the topic if you actualy read the comments you will see i responded to a comment so i guess you should tell that commenter to stay on topic too but ofcourse the other commenter is a so called woman while im just a stupid guy
besides i believe in dead on the topic isnt this about reltionship after marriage?

Anonymous said...

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vaibel said...

Ok this is my story
open minded woman married ultra frum guy, who found out about sex 3 hours before our chuppah, was told only tuesday and friday night, friday night and rosh chodesh and any other "special days" he was told to wait till after chazos,
only in a dark room
and now read this WITH UNDERSHIRT AND ZIZIS ON FOR THE GUY, AND NIGHTGOWN ON FOR THE WOMAN !!!!
yes believe it or not
thats the way we did it the first few weeks !!!!!
now let me tell you how quickly things changed for my "ultra frum " husband,
before you know it, we were at it every night, it did take a couple of months to stop waiting till chatzos on friday nights...( imagine coming home from meal in the winter at 9 pm and sitting and waiting to have sex till 12.....it kills the whole mood !!!!)
and closing the lights and only by night, was very fast forgotten...
my point being,
an open minded wife, can do anything with her even very farfrumte husband, she only has to use her "chochmas nushim " and let it roll....

Ex-Blogger said...

Shaigetz , I apologize if I misunderstood.

Shpitzle, I Have to stick up to yy, he was in tact this time.
(YY maybe its like the story with the liar faking that his house is on fire,,)

BTW, Someone mentioned before the name of Herzog, there was another chusson teacher, wh was suppose to be the more open minded one, and was FORCED lately to stop giving classes, cause er hut tzi grub geredt.

your ok im ok said...

lol ex bloger. my husband did go to an open minded one. i thik he showed how to do it physicall. to grub lol lol
vaibel ur great i love ur attitude. keep it comming pls. id like to change my attitude

yinger man said...

I dont understand at all
we were taught
1 you have to be totally naked
2 you must please your wife before you get anything
3 you must 'please' her tues & fri but if she wants more than you MUST give
4 Never make your wife cry or upset, cause then your goin to hell forever!
you're right we should write up the male view of things!

so i did!
http://yingerman.blogspot.com/

Y.Y. said...

yingerman
you are correct
i dont know where these women got the idea that the rabbis teach the chassanim all of this crap actually in shilcan aruch it says you gotta be totaly naked nothing on!

cafe_28 said...

Yinger and Y.Y.,

Yes, I've heard from someone first-hand of how he went to a rabbi-teacher in Williamsburg, and was told to do it with his underwear. A few weeks after his wedding, his dayan realized that something wasn't right wiht the shailos he was asking. When he heard how he was taught, he made him go to someone else and repeat the entire class from beginning to end!

And this teacher is popular in Williamsburg. He's rabbi of a shul and has chassidim. What a nutcase.

Anonymous said...

hahahahah
these stories are so funny, i cant really believe them

cafe_28 said...

Anon, yeah, well, mine isn't.

megapixel said...

please check out megapixelnj.blogspot.com

socialworker/frustrated mom said...

You must write that book it is the best title I have heard yet.

Hoezentragerin said...

UOK-IOK
I have seen your comments and critcs alike, and I have one point for you.
IF YOU DONT LOVE YOURSELF, how do you expect HIM to love you??
Be happy, smile alot, I am sure your half empty glass is also half full.
There are many ladies with a few extra pounds, who are loved and yes their is even lust.
Treat yourself, go to a day spa, get a massage, pamper yourself, feel good.
Ever heard this; ( I think you can handle it)
"A smile is more meaningful AND attractive then a pair of boobs".
(can you imagine a man that would have both. : )

shiegetz aross said...

HOZAN...... look at both sides of the coin. a.the poeple are usally the same moud that you are. b.but thay realy don't know how to deal in a situation as nice or good thay feel abut somthing.
What i always say is that"LIFE CAN'T ADDJUST TO YOU BUT YOU CAN ADDJUST TO LIFE'
it realy come's down(in egreement to what you say) is like thethe saying 'BEUITY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOULDER" moust poeple say it meaning that you cant argue about beuity cuz it s in the eye of the person judgeing it but i say it in the meaning that poeple look at you if you'r beuityfull it's in the eyes of the behoulder that persons on eyes becuse there is only a beuityfull soul thet enspiers poeple around you.

every have a happy beuityfull life

Hoezentragerin said...

Shiegetzaran, ich mien az die zolst prebiren zi shrieben in yiddish. es vet zien gringer zi farshtien! :)

Semgirl said...

SHEG...Mir Darf Folgin vuz Hoezen hust gebetin fun eich. Zi vais fun vus zi redt.

Anonymous said...

semgirl, you're better off in English, though.

Ex-Blogger said...

A Real "Shigetz" should have a better english.

Hoizen, if you are not posting it where I asked you to, at least give me the credit.

Anonymous said...

moch,
hu?

your ok im ok said...

ur right houzin
i just realized that im so frustrated that im not able to fully love myself yet, that i want him to love me sooo much that it would compensate me not loving myself. weird huh? thats why i love psycology. its a chalange, i figure it out.

next point: shaigets, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, true. 1 problem my beholder's eyes likes skinny women. so here we go, i can feel good bout my body, but hes not. thats life and mine aint so bad except when i bitch to u guys.

guys! be nice to shaigets, its not his fault, whoever gave him an education did a pretty shitty job.

Shaigets: call malky@footsteps. they have free classes.

Anonymous said...

Malky @ Footsteps??? is she hot??

Anonymous said...

You people are way off topic. Anyone mind?